This is a heavy question for a Monday afternoon, eh? During last week’s chat session, I was confronted about the lack of trans-related content on Manhunt Daily. Even though it caught me completely off guard, it was a necessary wake-up call. Why do we, as a community, consistently forget the “T” in LGBT?
Before we begin this conversation, we should make one thing clear–this isn’t a pissing contest. Yes, I realize there’s a decent amount of biphobia within the M4M world. Sure, there are sexualities and identities completely ignored by the “LGBT” acronym, leading some queer groups to extend it beyond four letters…
But this isn’t about anyone else! For the moment, let’s focus on trans individuals. It bugs me that a lot of gay biological males would consider someone who’s FTM as an outsider or “freak”. I’ve read and overheard so many disparaging comment of this nature. I’ve heard the word “tranny” used as an insult far too many times. And then there are those folks who call someone “it” or refuse to feel bad about using the wrong pronoun. Honestly? It’s a shame people can be so close-minded and self-centered.
While I could have been really predictable and included some pictures of Buck Angel in this post, I’ve opted to feature some real trans men from Original Plumbing‘s editor-in-chief Amos Mac (pictured above). Don’t be scared if you’re attracted to them. After all, they’re just men. And if you’re reading this blog, you probably like men.
– Dewitt
To check out some photos by Amos Mac, follow the JUMP:
Click for larger view.
Thanks for this Dewitt! Hopefully we’ll see a lot of men who are open-minded, and not just a bunch of rude comments from guys who aren’t secure enough in their sexuality to consider being attracted to or with a transman!
I am a gay biological male and I have to say quite honestly transgendered men and women are really beautiful in my eyes. At the same time, I think that everyone is beautiful in their own right. It’s what (I hope) we were raised to learn over the years. It’s really sad that many of our LGBT community preaches so much about equality and unity and love, but a majority of the community NEVER practices it whatsoever. A majority of the readers of Manhunt Daily are a prime example. Months ago, I stopped reading the comments to each of the blog entries because the comments left behind were so disparaging, cruel, and flat out discriminating. Negative comments relating to minorities, women, transgendered males and females, etc are just not neccessary because we are all a part of the same family. HELLO…OUR FLAG IS A RAINBOW FLAG! If that’s not a sign of equality and unity, then I don’t know what is.
I’m very proud and happy that Dewitt, of all people, put this post up. I was expecting the usual porn piece for the afternoon, but Dewitt, you really surprised me today and I have so much respect for you in putting this up. The community as a whole does ignore the fact that transgendered people are a part of our community and we shouldn’t walk around treating them like we’re better than them.
Let’s actually have minds and hearts and be better than the majority of the heterosexual world that acts ignorant to things they don’t understand.
One Love!
I am a gay biological male and I have to say quite honestly transgendered men and women are really beautiful in my eyes. At the same time, I think that everyone is beautiful in their own right. It’s what (I hope) we were raised to learn over the years. It’s really sad that many of our LGBT community preaches so much about equality and unity and love, but a majority of the community NEVER practices it whatsoever. A majority of the readers of Manhunt Daily are a prime example. Months ago, I stopped reading the comments to each of the blog entries because the comments left behind were so disparaging, cruel, and flat out discriminating. Negative comments relating to minorities, women, transgendered males and females, etc are just not neccessary because we are all a part of the same family. HELLO…OUR FLAG IS A RAINBOW FLAG! If that’s not a sign of equality and unity, then I don’t know what is.
I’m very proud and happy that Dewitt, of all people, put this post up. I was expecting the usual porn piece for the afternoon, but Dewitt, you really surprised me today and I have so much respect for you in putting this up. The community as a whole does ignore the fact that transgendered people are a part of our community and we shouldn’t walk around treating them like we’re better than them.
Let’s actually have minds and hearts and be better than the majority of the heterosexual world that acts ignorant to things they don’t understand.
One Love!
Wow.. all of these guys are FTM transgenders??? This may seem shallow of me, but the last guy’s feet look like any natural born man’s feet, not like a female’s at all.
I will admit I’m a bit ignorant about what “trans” is. “tranny” is always being tossed around for less than attractive women. Good post.
very nice comment, Dewitt!
meh, there should be fewer letters in the list, not more. i vote we just call everyone p for person.
I think that many Gay men object because most Trans people claim to not be Gay. Great, so why are they lumped in with Gay people. Who decided that and why? Not bashing here, just putting a truth out there. If we can’t talk about it, we can’t resolve it.
Transgendered and Drag Queen males is a turn off to me as a masculine gay male. I am not turned on by girly acting men. It’s a total turn off. What I do find, many heterosexuals see girly acting men and they think all gay men want to dress up in women’s clothes and act feminine. This is why I was turned off by A List New York on Logo. The majority of the men were feminine and white. If the Brazilian guy Rodiney is considered white in America as most white Hispanics. I should no, because I am a black man/Latino/Puerto Rican. But in the eyes of most in America, they don’t realize there are black Hispanics in Puerto Rico, Cuba, Panama, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Costa Rico, etc.
Transgendered and Drag Queen males is a turn off to me as a masculine gay male. I am not turned on by girly acting men. It’s a total turn off. What I do find, many heterosexuals see girly acting men and they think all gay men want to dress up in women’s clothes and act feminine. This is why I was turned off by A List New York on Logo. The majority of the men were feminine and white. If the Brazilian guy Rodiney is considered white in America as most white Hispanics. I should no, because I am a black man/Latino/Puerto Rican. But in the eyes of most in America, they don’t realize there are black Hispanics in Puerto Rico, Cuba, Panama, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Costa Rico, etc.
JonM:
because a lot of Gay men are ignorant to the concept of “sexuality” and “gender identity” 😐
JonM:
because a lot of Gay men are ignorant to the concept of “sexuality” and “gender identity” 😐
A valid point Jon, I too have had several similar experiences with several trans people. I believe “the letters” are meant to include anything other than heterosexual. While I have mixed feelings about such a grouping, I understand how it came to be.
I think a lot of the derision is because of lack of understanding and exposure to the trans community. Trans people are to the gay/lesbian community what gays and lesbians were to the hetero community 30+ years ago.
And I think find most of the guys pictured above super hot!!!
My thoughts exactly !
When they disconnect themselves from the gay experience they are not a concern to gay people anymore.
Example: Chas Bono now considers himself a man with a girlfriend so, he is not gay.
I totally agree with Finnytwoshoes. I’m a gay male and I personally don’t have a problem with transsexuals. It’s the same position I have with all sexualities. No body cares what you do in the bedroom (At least, nobody should. The Church always seems to be overly preoccupied with what WE like to do behind closed doors… makes you wonder…). If you decide you want to be a man, or you want to be a girl, then be it. But don’t start shoving it in people’s faces that you went through the work to become a transsexual. I have met one transsexual who I quite liked. He was FTM, and I didn’t even know that until someone mentioned it off hand. He didn’t see it that way though. He was stuck in a woman’s body and now he feels comfortable in his body, and is able to date women. THAT is how it should be. None of this “I used to be a woman/man now accept me for my difference!!!” That’s just all attention seeking, in my eyes.
I think the whole LGBT thing is a bunch of bull, which is why I agree with Finnytwoshoes about just changing it to P for Person/People. We keep working so hard for equality, yet we persistently try to set ourselves apart from one another. I think we as both a community and a world need to get our heads straight and realize that you can’t have both equality and separation(whether the separation is supposed to be positive or not)at the same time.
Wow, you idiot, can’t you see that all the men above are transmen, not transwomen? Obviously you didn’t even take the time to think before you wrote your bullshit! Oh wait, you don’t have enough of a brain to do that in the first place. Too bad, another brainless gay man bringing the collective intelligence of our community down a notch!
And don’t even get me started on Drag Queens. They’re just a bunch of attention seeking slags. When I first went to a gay bar, I refered to one as a him, and I got slapped. I was fresh on the gay scene, so I didn’t know better. So the next time out, I got slapped for referring to one as a her! What. the. Fuck! So, I have come to the conclusion that drag queens are a bunch of fucking douche wads and do NOT deserve respect. Before I came to this conclusion, I had other run ins with them. I had one screaming at me one time, because he didn’t like my shoes. So. No. Drag queens. No respect. And I doubt, by this point, you could prove otherwise to me.
BlackMan: You need some education-OK a lot of education. Meanwhile here’s your sign.
Close-mindedness on Manhunt Blog? NO WAY!
Well assuming most trans people claim not to be gay is a huge misconception. There is a large community of mtf’s who are lesbians, and there are alot of transguys that identify as gay. Gay transfolk are lumped in the category of gay because that’s their preference.
blueboi: does it matter what you label them as? I actually think there are both MTF and FTM in those pictures. But does it matter? If they and you are so stuck on what they WERE, then what is the point of getting the change? You want to change because of the end result, not because of what you used to be.
And as a side note, not having anything to do with the argument, simply attacking someone and saying they lack a brain does not prove to anyone that you yourself have one. You barely contributed to the argument and only displayed an inability to produce an argument beyond childish insults.
As a bio guy who’s dated a few FTM dudes I was really happy to see this post.
I wish there were sites like MH (or hell, even Manhunt) that was more trans inclusive. I’d love to meet more FTM guys.
PS: The sex is crazy hot.
Wonderful article and pictures!! I have always heard ‘tranny’ used as a derogatory comment. I know of several that frequent my employer. I always treat them with respect and dignity. I have co-workers that make nasty or rude comments after they leave. As a out & proud gay male, I correct my co-workers and left my opinion be known. Once I open the eyes of the offending co-worker, I notice a change when the victim of the rude comment comes back in. I feel proud and humble that I was able to enlighten others.
That’s all fine as long as they are living the gay experience but,
like the “guy” in Oregon who WAS a woman but, still has the plumbing and, has a “wife” even though, HE’S birthing children; So, how does anyone think gay people will relate to that? lol
It appears that TG’s don’t, understand or, want to acknowledge, that the transgender experience is NOT the same as the homosexual experience, with the exception of the persecution by heteros, of which many transgenders actually relate to. Gay people have more that one reason not to want to associate with heteros but, many TG’s actually want to live like heteros.
Why is that so hard for “some” people to understand?
To each his own; Nuff said :-)lol
A transperson who is attracted to someone of the opposite sex is a hetero, not just living “like” a hetero. But yet they will still be discriminated against by non-trans heteros. So that is why they are part of the LGBT community, even if they are heterosexual. No transperson is naive enough to think that being trans is the same experience as being gay. It seems only gay, bi, and straight non-trans people make that mistake. Its pretty asinine of you to even make that claim!
Yes, it would be nice if Manhunt was more inclusive of us transmen. Personally, I have experienced transphobic behavior, not by the other guys on MH, but by the administrators of the site. I tried to post a pic of my cock as my public pic, as many men on here do, but after initially being approved, it was made private without my involvement, and when I inquired why, I was told FTM (female to male) genitalia pics were considered inappropriate and must be kept private. Talk about discrimination! We’re men too, grow the fuck up MH!
See, now you’re resorting to personal insults that make my “opinion” totally legitimate.
I acknowledged that Gays & TG’s who live as heteros are persecution by heteros but, when TG’s choose to live as heteros they become an enigma(contradicting puzzle) because, they want to be like the people who persecute them(?). That’s like an abductee wanting to become like his/her abductors.
But, I guess, that’s some people’s reality(?), lol
BYE
How does anything I said make anything you said legitimate? A heterosexual is a heterosexual, whether they are transgender or cisgender (not trangender). Its not like transpeople who are hetero are trying to be like heteros who are persecuting them. You aren’t even saying anything that makes even a tiny bit of sense. Your analogy is ridiculous. Sexual orientation and gender identity are two completely different things, and apparently you don’t understand that!
Correction: ‘persecution’ should’ve been ‘persecuted’.
And, for another example: Why would abused persons want to be like their abusers?
All the best, Ho Ho Ho & Happy New Year, Enough, LOL
I have an idea ! Why don’t Trangenders get their own website !
That’s Genius! LOL
Happy New Year ! LOL
I have a friend who’s name is Cassandra. She is a female personality living in a male body. Her and I get along great, mostly because both of us are intellectuals. I’ve gotten so use to calling her Her that if anyone mentions her as a Him, I get confused, not knowing who they’re talking about. Transsexuals are a wonderful group of people who often times are more forgiving than gay men, or even Lesbians.
As far as I’m concerned, a female turned male would be a nice person to hang with, and maybe go out with, if our chemistry is right. I think that the transgender (or Boi) culture is mostly ignored because there are even fewer of them than there are of gay men, or bisexual men. But, because they arn’t seen often, they should be celibrated more, as an oddity or treasure, not as some random piece of junk.
confusing
If you don’t comprehend the differences between Gays & TG’s then, it’s worthless to try to explain that to you.
FYI: The world doesn’t revolve around you ! LOL
You’re obviously a VERY bitter(and foul-mouthed) person who, wants to blame everyone for their problems and, can’t see the obvious differences between themselves and others.
BUT, we have one thing in common : An enemy of my enemy is my friend (I hope?), lol.
Your friend,
Woody ;-)lol
Bye!
Of course I understand the difference between being gay and being trans. The former has to do with one’s sexual orientation, the latter has to do with one’s gender identity. What I think you fail to realize is that trans people can be gay, bi, or straight, and thus can belong to the gay community or to the hetero community. Don’t tell me what I don’t know! I know more about this than you can imagine!
I have an even better idea; why don’t you take you bigotry to YOUR own website. I’m trans and have been welcomed by the men here on Manhunt. I’ve jerked off on cam and had tons of guys find it very hot. I’ve met many guys for some very hot hookups. Nobody but you seems to have a problem with me and my kind being here!
You’re understanding of the differences between TG’s & Gays appears limited and Not TRUE. AS I WROTE BEFORE (I hate to repeat myself), Being Gay is ALOT more than one thing and, obviously there’s ALOT more to being TG than one thing. You write in generalities when it’s ALOT more complicated than that.
And, your, anger &, insults to, me and, others, make you a VERY unpleasant person to comunicate with.
Get a grip & Say GOOD-bye transguy13 and, have a good life ! 😉
Apologies don’t seem to be in your persona 🙁
I don’t have a problem neither with transexuals, either FTM or MTF… however, I don’t consider transexuals to Drags. They are pure showbiz, and from my particular point of view, is offensive for both gay and trans community: I don’t know exactly how things are in US, but here on MX-Land, most of drags are offensive on the way they do their show, how they do speak in public, they don’t accept different opinions than theirs and they insult you frequently.
We even have one drag on national TV (cable telehit) shitting and cursing for any matter to any person onthe only gay show on here (wich, by the way, is a very demeritive show).
I had the opportunity to talk and work with some real trans, but most of the people hasn’t, and when you bring the topic to conversation, I realized that most of the people thinks on drags and their behaviour, and automatically close themselves up to the idea of acceptance.
As long as in gay clubs and gay commercialization, gay pride parades, etc., drags keep staying on the scene, life is gonna be difficult to real trans.
Jeez, you are so crude it’s kinda distasteful! LOL
Bye
First of all, my understanding is based on the most current research in sexuality and gender studies. I have read scholarly literature and spoken to professionals in this area, not to mention having lived this myself. Second, I never insulted you, so I don’t owe you an apology. If you misinterpreted something I said as insult, that is your problem, not mine. I never had any intention of insulting you. I did insult someone else, simply because their comment was blatantly offensive and I felt they deserved a little taste of what it felt like to be put down. Maybe not the most mature thing, but nobody is perfect. I find the fact that you seem to think you know more about the intersection of being gay and trans than I, a person who is both gay and trans, does, highly suspicious. Seems awfully like a person with a lot of talk but no walk. I’m not going to engage you any further after this. I’ve dealt with enough of your harassment, and having read your posts in other threads, I know how much you like to bother people, so you can just keep spewing your passive aggressiveness, but I’m not going to feel any worse about myself. I know I’m a far better man than many people with huge cocks that think they’re all that. Goodbye.
If I were TG I don’t think I’d want you to represent me ! LOL
For the last time, BYE! lol
Asinine & idiot, amongst others, aren’t personal insults? You have a very short and/or convenient memory!
I repeat ! The world doesn’t revolve around YOU! LOL
Get lost JERK ! Yes, that was personal insult, Sorry, lol
One thing that I can’t understand and you are welcome to incite me: If I want to be with a girl, I will be fucking girls. Why on earth would I want to be with a female imitator aka tranny while there are billions of girls around me? My perception of psychological mind works in terms of binary system, and Trans-gendered theorem seems to violate (hint: not exploit) our subconscious state of mind.
Please don’t flame me,I am asking this out of my humble ignorance.
@tiredoginorancefromlgppl; I have an education. People like you shouldn’t be labeled as gay, because you are not. This is why most heterosexuals in the United States have a low opinion of gays and others lumped in with gay men.
And, you obviously don’t know everything ! LOL
And, I don’t pretend to. ;-)~
@Woody; I agree. LOL
As a masculine gay man, I don’t want to be lumped in with a transgender person.
wow, what a heated topic….
One thing that we can all agree on, is that our community is still so judging…. even though there are sooooo many different types of individuals within it. We of all people SHOULD be more accepting of everyone, but unfortunately we are not!
I’ve had a FTM fuck buddy, and it was the hottest fun! He is still a very dear friend too! I now find myself open to more experiences with other FTM people!
Labels are for tin cans!!!
I want to be perfectly clear, My argument is about TG’s who live as Heteros who think they belong on a “Gay” website (?)
All the best,
Woody
BlackMan: maybe you should be more open minded ( and more closed mouthed )….
im sure you have suffered from prejudice because you’re black ( i make the assumption of course that you are black ) prejudice is still prejudice, be it about the colour of your skin, what you have downstairs or who you sleep with … and no-one is lumped with anyone….. I for one, welcome ANYONE into this community!
We’re all just queer!!
There is a difference between the “trannies” you see in porn, which are primarily gay men who still identify as gay men but who get breast implant and dress a women to play a role to earn money or such and true transgendered/transsexual people, who see themselves as having a body of one sex and the mind of another. For example, in my case, I was born in a female body, but I have a male brain. So, I have had surgery to make my body male in appearance, and I take testosterone to make my body and voice more male. I am a transman. Transwomen are people who are born biologically male yet have female brains, and they can undergo surgery to become physically female as well as taking female hormones (estrogen and progesterone) to help with the process.
Some people are attracted to the “trannies” you see in porn, whether they be gay, straight, or bi. Others are not. However, one must remember that these people are not representative of the true transsexual experience. The hormones transwomen take to become feminized prevent erections and lead to impotence. So a “tranny” that can perform is not the same as a transwoman who is proceeding through the transitioning process to become fully physically female.
Transmen can be gay, bi, straight, and every other sexuality. I am a gay transman, meaning I am attracted to my fellow men. The same is true for transwomen, they can be lesbian, bi, straight, etc. The key is that gender identity (how you see yourself in terms of being male or female) is different from sexual orientation (who you are sexually and romantically/emotionally attracted to).
Hope this helps Not Enough!
Correction: I should have wrote; “… TG’s who live as Heteros who think they belong in the “Gay” community.”
Wow, feel like I have been bitch slapped by both sides.
Well written. I’m not a transgender person nor do I want to be the other gender but I understand it better now. Sexuality seems to be mental more than anything…some people just see it as an aesthetic only.
Oh Freud would be laughing at us today.
Trans and Gay are completely different ….the gay community has no business with the trans community and vice versa …..GAY IS SEXUAL IDENTITY AND TRANS IS GENDER IDENTITY
🙂 thats why
dewitt, i hope you’re reading through all of these comments.
because it’s not a good look.
it’s not a good look, how limited in intelligence, empathy, and real-world_understanding some gay people have.
here’s the thing to keep in mind: in the eyes of those biologically-born men and women who
• will maintain their original gender (with culturally-associated/-archtyped traits) through the rest of their lives
• identify as heterosexual, and intend to live the whole of their lives as such,
it’s pretty much clear•cut, what Heterosexuality entails.
with 0% possibility for interpretation or alternate approaches.
anyone who does not fall within that rigid definition will not be perceived as “heterosexual,” nor as being “hetero-normative,” by those individuals.
that is why i have been saying in this blog, lately, that it’s not a matter of straight vs. gay, but as straight vs. not-straight — as far as i can see it, heterosexuals don’t discriminate, when it comes fielding
• discrimination
• bigotry
• and enmity
towards not-straight individuals.
(there are obvious exceptions, caveats, and all of that.
but i’m not going to refer to them at this time.)
as just one example:
a female prefers to live as a male, thus becoming a Female-to-Male Tran-gendered Person, but is a female who happens to be attracted to males.
a true heterosexual male has a very slim, if any-at-all, chance of being attracted to her, because she looks like a man.
a run-of-the-mill heterosexual male, almost always, seeks a female who possesses “traditional” female æsthetic attributes.
a gay-aligned male has a low chance of wanting to have” relations” with her (no matter how butch, masculine, handsome, or built), once he learns she does not have a functional penis; if this same male is one of those who has an actual, unequivocal distaste for Vaginas, then she is out of luck yet again.
what are her options, if she desires a person who has actual, functioning, male genitalia?
this trans-gendered, still-heterosexual woman probably doesn’t want another trans-gendered woman to fool around with.
with that said, if dewitt wants to also cater to the “T” in LGBT..
..well, he seems to be the Head Honcho of this blog.
on the other hand, he might, indeed, want to consider changing the name of said blog (as others had, with spite, suggested previously).
for those fags who like playing with Seme-..
..semantics.
what dewitt asked was, “Why do we neglect the `T´ in LGBT?”.
as of this posting, it seems only JonM answered, without also being off-putting.
how many trans-gendered people are there, total? 100 million? maybe up to 500 million?
that’s probably an overestimate, because i believe it’s really no more than 10 – 50 million
(actually, 700-thousand to 1.2 million).
it’s not really a lot, either way you slice it.
and it’s really, really, complex, to be trans-gendered.
mostly because of the usual reaction of those individuals whom the trans-gendered may want to court.
i believe (and correct me if my conjecture is inaccurate) that the best technical match for a trans-gendered is the other pariah of the “LGBT” — bi-sexuals.
I’ve been friends with several MTF transwomen over the years, and have found them to be very wonderful people. They’re women now, and I treat them as such (with respect, since my dad taught me to always respect women), since that’s how they see and feel themselves to be. To the guys pictured above, so what if they used to be biological females? They’re hot guys now. I’ve never seen a reason to put down or belittle someone because of their life circumstances, and I’m not about to start now. They deserve the same respect and kindness we should show to others, because after all, whether we’re gay, straight, transgendered, bi…..we’re all human, and should treat each other with civility and love.
And I gotta say…that is one sexy-ass dude baking cookies above. =)
Woody, you are the one who instigated and began with the ad hominem. Stop acting like this person is trying to harm you. In fact, I think they have been very patient and calm when discussing this issue with you considering you have some of the most idiotic crap posted in this thread.
I would’ve written you off as an idiot many posts ago (and I suspect others already have). Kudos to transguy13 for keeping it civil.
For future reference, deary, a lot is two words.
You were never called an idiot. Your CLAIM was called asinine. Reading comprehension is wonderful don’t you think?
Oh the hypocrisy and contradictory statements…who are you trying to fool, Woody?
finally dewitts has an intelligent post here for real discussion
I love how talk of others is derailed constantly. In a post asking ‘Why do we neglect Trans* people’ we have mostly a bunch of gay guys talking about themselves… Again.
I feel the main reason Trans* is ignored is because there is little involvement with mainstream Gay/Lesbian society. Just as Les/Gay people stick with their own because they don’t want to bother explaining themselves to people who don’t understand, Trans* people may want the same thing. Considering how rife trans*phobia is (at least here in Australia) within the les/gay scene and hetero world, who can blame them for wanting to separate? I mostly identify as a male bodied genderqueer boydyke (which makes for excellent lines of questioning) So I can somewhat empathise with why Trans* peeps disassociate with the gay/les world, which is literally just heterosexuality lite. All the same bigotry but with a slight twist.
If nothing else I think we should remember that it was the trans* folk and genderqueer ‘freaks’ the started the Stonewall riot that gave rise to the lesbian and gay movement. In fact, most of all the transgressive momentum for the wider LGBT community has generally come from the mostly ignored ‘T’ part of the acronym. Just a little something to think about there…
PS: Transguy13, you are clearly a babe for putting up with Woody so well. I’d have called him on his douche status much sooner.
I think on the surface you might say we are neglecting the Transsexual community, but if you were to think about what you would do to include them, I come up a bit stumped. Pictures of guys in drag? I think we have already established that there is a MAJOR difference between dressing in drag (which I would call a transvestite, or ‘tranny’) and being a transsexual. Alternatively then, would you post pics of chicks with dicks or guys with vaginas? I think that would be quite offensive to the transsexuals.
In my opinion the T is added to the LGBT because of shared discrimination. The transsexuals that you will find on manhunt and manhuntdaily are not here because of discrimination (there is change.org for that), they are here because they identify as gay. And if they identify as gay then they are as much accomodated for as all the other people on this site that identify as gay, not so?
Thanks Dewitt for bringing this up. I think you’re spot on that we do ignore trans-people. I think in some ways that it’s a lot like homophobic people when it comes to gays. We fear what we don’t understand. If we had a chance to sit and talk with some of them and probably see the results of their surgery (curiousity is certainly a part of it) then maybe we’d be more aware and sensitive. As you can see from the above diatribes it’s a tricky subject and a slippery slope. (Add “Todd” to the mix and it always seems to become explosive actually.) Knowledge is power and things like this bring us another little bit of education and information.
When you make sense and can back up your statements I’ll take you seriously.
All the best 😉
Just a note on proper use of pronouns. In order to be polite, one would refer to a female to male transsexual/transgendered person with male pronouns (he, him, his). He is male in his gender identity, thus it is respectful of who he is to use male pronouns. Likewise, a transwoman (MTF transperson) would be referred to with female pronouns.
That being said, I would also dispute your claim that gay men would not want to be with a transman. Personally, I am a transguy who has not had bottom surgery, and I have never had any trouble finding gay men who are comfortable being sexual with me. And I am not alone in this. There are plenty of gay men who are okay with transmen and some of them who even seek us out. We aren’t relegated to seeking out only bisexuals. Just a few thoughts for you to consider.
This may come off as slightly ignorant, but I feel like people should just accept the way they were born. Perhaps I truly felt on the inside that I should I have been white and not black, but I’m not gonna go all Michael Jackson on everyone. Life’s like a poker game, you play the hand you’re dealt; you don’t take a sharpie to your cards and try to pawn off deuces as aces. And, consequently, this is why I always hated “The Little Mermaid.” Bitch, you were born a mermaid — and a princess mermaid no less — so fucking deal with it! That all being said, fortunately people have the right to do whatever they want with their lives. And maybe it’s okay for the biological gays to not be lumped in with transexuals, mainly because it’s an entirely different biological and mental process that gets you to both places.
I guess you’ve never done research in this area. The scientists have done post-mortem examinations of the brains of non-transsexuals and transsexuals and found that a certain part of the brain of the transsexuals is the same size as that of the brains of the non-transsexual of the gender they identify as, not as the sex they were born. Specifically, MTF transsexuals have this specific portion of the brain sized the same as biological females who identify as females, not as men who identify as men. So, transsexuality has a biological basis. It is no more a choice than being gay is.
Telling someone who is transsexual to accept the way they are born is absolutely cruel. Living in the wrong body can be the most traumatic of experiences. Try going through every day of your life with the wrong body features, being called the wrong name, being referred to with the wrong pronouns. Transitioning is a life or death decision for most people who are trans. Eventually one reaches a point in life where one can no longer stand to live a fake existence anymore, and one must be one’s true self.
Hopefully this has provided you some insight, and you might look beyond your preconceived notions of what you think as people only being born male as male and female as female.
Once again, your posts are inaccurate, to say the least.
I FIRST was only agreeing with JonM in my FIRST comment, when someone jumped all over me so, you’re WRONG There.
AND, I never said I was called an idiot; That insult was directed towards someone else.
Everytime you post something you make yourself look more stupid and short-sighted, I wonder if you have any humility at all(?)
Try reading and knowing everything that you’re writing about before you start spouting off at the mouth. And, try to clean up your mouth while you’re at it.
Happy New Year ;-)~
FYI: It can be “alot” or “a lot” depending on the meaning intended so, go buy a dictionary and get educated, lol
Jeez, is there no end to your ignorance?
Getting back to the ORIGINAL question…. Why do we neglect the T in LGBT? This question answers itself. And that would be… T reflects a gender orientation, NOT a sexual orientation which is what Gay and Lesbian IS. I personally have had several trans friends over the years and only one of them was gay. The others all were hetero, but felt they were born into the wrong bodies.
Well said,
Thanx, Talig71
Definition of “ad hominem”: appealing to one’s prejudices, rather than to reason.as by attacking one’s opponent, rather than debating the issue”. Now, how have I or anyone else here done that? LOL Maybe You and a certain Transgender person here has done that? LOL
Oh, the hypocrisy ! LOL
Thanks for the info… I real appreciate your time to explain it. I never met anyone who is trans in a real life so most of the time I struggle to understand what is going through with their lives.
Thanks for the info… I real appreciate your time to explain it. I never met anyone who is trans in a real life so most of the time I struggle to understand what is going through with their lives.
Thanks for the info… I real appreciate your time to explain it. I never met anyone who is trans in a real life so most of the time I struggle to understand what is going through with their lives.
No problem. Always glad to help explain things to those who don’t understand. I mean, really, most people don’t understand anyway. Who would, unless they personally knew someone who was trans, or were themselves trans? Happy holidays!
Transgender is usually left out because it technically belong with the LGB. Transgender really have nothing to do with sexuality and moreso to do with sex. Transgenders believe they suffer from a disorder and change their sex so they can feel more comfortable in their skin, and that really doesn’t have anything to do with sexual attraction.
As a gay man, I also think the “T” in “LGBT” should not be “included.” The first three letters identify sexual orientation; the last one identifies sexual identity (or gender identity). To me, these are entirely different realms.
I understand the frustration of transsexual/gender people because of the discrimination they face, the same with us gay/lesbian/bi and it all got “attached” because of that discrimination from the straight world. Strength comes in unity. But with identity, it’s not the same. Just as sexual orientation is as different from sexual identity, so is sexual orientation and sexual identity from racial and ethnic (and even religious) identity. People who have been discriminated against because of their race, ethnicity, color, belief, age, looks, orientation, identity, handicap, size etc. all have a common cause and coalition/support is the way to go. But they are not all the same.
“Everytime you post something you make yourself look more stupid and short-sighted”
Bam. Hypocrisy and contradiction.
You’re done Woody. Wait…let me find an equally idiotic face: (＝゜ω゜)ノ
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alot
Dumbshit. =)
What statements do I need to back up? You’ve pretty much done the most damage to yourself.
LOL,
What’s hypocritical & contradictory, Rob?
Apparently, you don’t know how foolish your ramblings are (?)
Who are you trying to fool? Yourself?
LOL
I “like” my own posts to make myself feel better!
I’ve previously shown where you’ve been wrong so, back up ANY of your statements,
We get nothing but, excuses, avoidance of the issues & answers and denial but, no real facts, proof or relevence to the issue, from you. LOL
You continue to make a fool of yourself.
How sad 🙁
Crude, irrational &/or immature 🙁
Since when is putting a link to a dictionary website to prove you wrong irrational or immature? Seriously Woody, I have sat by just reading all of the posts thus far, but I find I must say something, because it seems you are simply trying to be antagonistic of the others on this posting thread. And just so you know, I will not engage in a back and forth of wits with you, I am simply stating that I think you need to take your attempts to disrupt a civil discussion elsewhere.
So when I provided a dictionary link citing that “alot” is not a word, you called that immature/crude/irrational. In your own special world, anyone who argues against your point is either a know-it-all or immature and anyone who cites evidence that proves you wrong is irrational and crude.
You’re an idiot: plain and simple. This time, you can pick which idiotic face you enjoy the most since emoticons seem to be the only thing you’re good at in a debate: (‘д’)( ^-^)_旦～(⊃д⊂)(‘∇’)(‘◇’)ゞ((((゜д゜;))))(;゜ロ゜)(;´д⊂)∑(゜△゜;)ъ(｀―´)(●´―｀●)(ノ゜o゜)ノ(´Д｀;)ヽ(｀д´)ノ
that is duly noted, kind sir.
i did ask for correction, if needed.
i will absorb what you’ve told me.
and, thank you.
You’re quite welcome. Always glad to help provide info about the trans experience 😀
You get your info from ASK.COM?,
And, now, you’ve assumed my name to confuse and avoid the issue, AGAIN !
What was the ORIGINAL Topic and do you have something to say about it?
Pathetic !
Bye
The ORIGINAL issue was the “T” in GLBT and whether it belongs there(?)
And, all you have to comment on is the, definition and/or, use of the word(s) a and lot ?
Who’s wasting who’s time here? ;-( bye
I’m so grateful for this post — Dewitt, your post really moved me. I recently decided to disclose my status as an intersex person on my MH profile. Though, granted, the “I” in BGLTQI is seldom included, I identify as a relatively gender-confirming queer person (and, for the most part, I identify as male, which is why I’m on MH). As part of the MH team, your post makes me feel as if my biological sex (and gender, too) can be embraced in this website. This is particularly meaningful because I just included this a week ago in my profile and I was worried MH admins would ban my profile because I might not be construed as male… Happy holidays!
this is great, thanks for doing this Dewitt
The original issue which you ironically steered the conversation away from…that one? Yeah, I think everyone but YOU is aware of the fact that transgender individuals are the topic of this discussion.
You come off as very pretentious so I thought I’d knock you down a notch while addressing your ‘arguments’ (can we even really call pieces of garbage that you spew at us arguments?).
I enjoy trolling so…I’m pretty sure you’re the only one wasting time and oxygen.
Keep posting. I don’t even have to do anything at this point. With every post you make, your idiocy becomes more and more readily apparent to the public.
His opinion is actually spot on. He made no mention of ask.com. Plenty of us have already stated our opinions on the matter. Again, reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.
His name has no impact on the subject currently being discussed.
So far in this one thread alone you’ve used:
Ad Hominem
Appeal to Ridicule
Questionable Cause
Burden of Proof
Poisoning the Well
Hasty Induction
Personal Attack
Red Herring
Straw Man
So many fallacies…and this is just one thread. I’ve seen countless others that you have participated in where other individuals like myself have come to the conclusion that you really are as incompetent as you sound and aren’t worth the time.
You constantly use straw man to steer conversations away from what was originally being discussed and every one of your posts ends in a personal attack or ad hominem.
You aren’t fit for debating. You aren’t even amusing to troll.
じゃねあほうくん
transguy13 do you perhaps have links to those studies looking at brain size? If that were indeed the case, surely it would be a simple matter of having a CAT scan to get the go ahead for a sex change operation?
I wonder, do you just mentally beat off when you spam post or is it a physical thing also . . . in how many ways are you a troll, lets count . . .
Better him than you.
When you say/type, Bye (see above spam/troll posts), leave.
How many of us have said to a friend, or relitive after coming out, “it’s not a choice”, or “it’s not preference?” The majority of you probably have uttered such phrases in one form or another. We have all felt the harrowing blow of discrimination, and dissent. So how can anyone of us, who wants to have equal rights, be seen as an equal person, discriminate against anyone who associates him/herself with the LGBT community. Are we not all just trying to recognizd as humans who are capable of many great things? Bigotry, discrimnatory behavior; that is part of our society, it always has been. It is taught to us as children from the time we keave ur mothers womb. But we have a choice. We can choose to be differnt. We can choose, as victims of the very crime we are discussing, not to participate. Only then will this seed of inbred hatred stop flurishing. Only when each each and everyone of us makes the choice to say “no more.”
to answer the question, directly: the common, “unifying” factor (and the reason the “T” should not be neglected) is the discrimination/bigotry that Heterosexuals are subject to showing, towards any one of these individuals, who fall within that LGBT grouping, if these heterosexuals know or (perceive) any discordances or conflicts.
that’s how I see it.
actually, i had no idea (before this post) that some non-heterosexual individuals didn’t want to be “lumped in” with trans-gendered individuals.. ..because their “difference” deals with sexuality (in terms of the gender{s} of the individuals they seek intimacy with), whereäs the trans-gendereds’ “difference” relates to …gender.
the bottom line is, we non-heterosexuals need to band together, in unity.
we should not continue tearing each other apart, and erecting these unnecessary barriers (in a misguided attempt to distance ourselves from “icky undesirable peoples”).
if there was no bigotry & bias, there wouldn’t be a need for “LGBT.”
it would as finneytwoshoes‘d said, above, early on: the only letter we’d need is p, for person. but, if that were the case, then we wouldn’t really need to use p, yeah?
I’ll preface this comment by saying that I’m a gay, trans guy. Most people don’t know that I’m trans, but they do know that I’m a gay man. It can be a little frustrating to hear comments from queer folks who don’t want to see me as a gay guy or a trans person worthy of an anti-oppression movement that they apparently have more claim to than I.
Thankfully, those folks seem to be fewer these days and I’m continually heartened by most of the comments to this article. I also want to say that I get with a lot of non-trans gay men who have no problem with my lower configuration. My beard, deep voice, hairy, flat chest, and big muscles are manly enough, I suppose.
If you think about some of the most people experience discrimination based on sexual orientation – being called a fag, dyke, etc – it is often because they are visibly identifiable as such. The limp wristed fag or the rough edged dyke are identified not by there explicit sexual practices, but by their gender expression.
I think it is important to understand that the “T” stands for more than a textbook definition of transgender. There are four million and one ways to be a guy who fucks other guys – look no further than this here website. The community under the LGBT umbrella is extremely diverse with regards to gender expression and identity. Butches, fairies, femmes, drag queens/kings, aggressives, straight-acting, DL, etc, etc – all these manifestations of sexual identity are inherently gendered. Gender transgression and freedom of expression is part and parcel of this community and its history. Stonewall was not fought by a band of pissed off white, middle class gay men – it was fought by working class butches and queens of all colors.
Saying gender isn’t part of the sexual freedom movement is like saying, it’s okay to be a man who has sex with men, you just can’t be a fag.
Ha! I am very simpathetic to people who make assumptions and/or do not understand. Hell – it took ME years and I am FTM! It’s a bummer we can’t all handle this with a bit of light-heartedness and compassion. But as we all know – no matter WHAT the CONTENT is – some people are just a bit unschooled in how to learn about something they don’t understand – OR how to be compassionate with differing view points. Unfortunate.
Be that as it may – I had to laugh (warmly) at one of your assumptions Mister Impatients about how few if any gay men would be attracted to a transitioned FTM. I’ve been transitioned 15+ years and most of that time I’ve been out in the parks and typical GAY pick up places. And honest to god – I never go home unsatisfied! I have had literally thousands of encounters – with every kind of gay man you can imagine (and some you can’t!). I’m telling the truth – take it or leave it. So for me it’s always funny to hear this type of perspective (sorry – really not meaning to sound like I’m picking on YOU specifically – because I even hear this silliness among my transmale friends!!) – but it’s actually just not true. I’ve even had men talk to me in theparks saying they see me “getting more” than anyone else (!) – which I believe from what I’ve seen/experienced.
Now, I’ll be the first to admit that a certain – very SMALL percentage of men won’tbe interested – for whatever reason. But given the vast array of men I’ve been with “in the dark” – (I’ve a slut and don’t discriminate – ha!) – know one can tell me with any seriousness that “gay men won’t/don’t” – it’s pure conjecture and not based on what’s really going on out there in the dark among men. But guess what? Many gay men are not attracted to just any gay man either. Most have a “type” and if you’re not that “type” they’re not interested (strangely – that’s very much like MOST people I know (a touch of light hearted sarcasm)!). I also admit that I’m so completely “passable” most men have greatly struggled with their attraction to me because they just “can’t believe it” and I know a sector of our community struggle with “passing” – at least for a while.
Regardless, When I hear this perspective (often) I just can’t help but smile. The fact of the matter is – men, gay or straight – will do MANY things “in the dark” that they’d NEVER copt to in the light of day. That’s the FACT of my experience of over 12 years having sex with MANY partners, several times a week.
Believe it or not 🙂
Best to you,